Ilves Veikkausliigassa 2024 - takaisin Tammelaan, takaisin Eurooppaan

[Grinder]

Täällä kun on otteluketjussa manattu, että ei ole maalintekijöitä ja homma tyssää siihen, niin jatkan aiheesta täällä.

Olen sitä mieltä, ettei Takkula hirmuisesti paremmin olisi voinut joukkuetta koota. Ratinan aikaa kuvasti usein se, että joukkueessa oli laatua kyllä, mutta joukkue oli todella epätasapainoinen. Siis väärin koottu. Oli joku osa-alue, johon oli ylitarjontaa ja sitten puuttui esimerkiksi kokonaan toisen puolen osaava laitapakki. Nyt joukkue on tasapainoinen ja varsinkin joukkuepelin sydän eli keskisektori on aivan liigan eliittiä täynnä. Toki osalla on loukkaantumishistoriaa, mutta ehkäpä juuri siitä syystä ovat edelleen ylipäätään Veikkausliigajoukkueiden saatavilla. Veteli ja Ala-Myllymäki eivät varmasti olisi kotimaassa enää ilman noita valitettavia vaivoja. Pikkarainen, Ulundu, Popovits.. Kaikki nuo pelaajat olisivat kelvanneet Klubillekin, mutta Takkula hoiti ne meille. "Kun Takkula esitteli visionsa Ilveksen projektista, tarjoukseen oli helppo tarttua.." on kuultu jokaisen kohdalta.

No sitten tuo hyökkäyspää. Haarala, Riski, Ulundu, Stjopin, Jukkola, Veteli. Kaikki nuo kykenevät maalintekoon. Eli rintama on laaja.
Ysipaikalle ei puhdasta pelaajaa ole kuin Riski. Se on myönnettävä. Siksikin olisin mielelläni pitänyt vielä Traoren joukkueessa. Ehkä sitten ei intressit kohdanneet tai afrikkalaisseuran osto-optio oli liian hintava.

Eilisestähän ei jäänyt puuttumaan kuin (hyväksytty) maali. Muutoinhan peli oli erinomaista, toki osa ratkaisusyötöistä oli ärsyttävän laaduttomia. Jos silti isosti harmittaa, niin voi katsoa Veikkausliigan sivuilta kuin kausi alkoi Interillä tai Klubilla. Pistesaldo voisi olla nolla ja esitys herättää pikkaisen enemmän turhautumista ja kysymysmerkkejä.

Ja muuten.

Takkula muuten kuulemma kertoi Napit edellä -podcastissä, että nuorten maajoukkuehyökkääjän kanssa on tehty sopimus, jota ei siis vielä ole julkaistu. Kenties siitä ysipaikalle joku erilainen vaihtoehto Riskin tilalle/rinnalle..

(Onko kellään mitään lisätietoa tästä?)

Kyllähän Takkula selvästi tietää mitä tekee ja osaa myydä ideansa eteenpäin jopa pelaajille. Tietyt asiat on vaan hyväksyttävä ja Takkulan Ilves on tasapainoinen ja laadukas. Ei täydellinen, mutta varmasti lähellä parasta mitä saa. Pelikin näytti toimivan, paremmin mitä odotin. On se osin hakemistakin, mutta Ilves oli tarpeeksi tiivis ja loi lisäksi monta niin laadukasta paikkaa että maali olisi pitänyt tehdä. Useampikin. Tuosta voi miinuksen muuten hyvään matsiin laittaa. Maalejakin on pakko tehdä voittaakseen.

Mielestäni Ilveksellä on laatua myös kärkeen. Rankkaan Riskin edelleen korkealle maalintekijätilastossa. Merkit näytti hyvää, uskon että vertyy. Pidän myös Ulundua, Haaralaa ja Stjopinia viimeistelyvoimaisina. Toki Haarala ja Ulundu ovat enemmän laitapelaajia kuin kärkiä. Riski tarvisi rinnalleen ehkä jotain sentterimpää. Riski itsessään tuntuu enemmän second striker -tyypiltä joka kaipaa vierelleen kärjessä pysyvämpää pelaajaa. Haarala ei sitä ole. Kärjessä ok mutta myös second striker -tyyppi, enemmän laitahyökkääjä. Tarjoilu hyökkääjille on hyvää.

Siihen mihin on tottunut niin joukkue on nyt paremmin koottu, eikä voi sanoa ettei viimeistelyvoimaa ole. Toki ihan sellainen armoton viimeistelijä uupunee. Riski voi olla sellainenkin. Jos hyvin käy ja pysyy pitkän sarjan kasassa.

Hyvä ja inspiroiva kirjoitus

 

[Pok]

I have been apprehensive to attend football games in Finland because of the quality but despite that I still had a great time today! I do not mind a good clap and sing along and the fans behind the goal kept going all game so fair play to them.
I have to say I was quite impressed with the new stadium, it is lovely and I thought the atmosphere was pretty okay as mentioned above, everyone seemed friendly enough which is nice! The football in all honesty was really poor for most of the game and lacked quality.

You are a Charlton supporter and been apprehensive to attend Football league games in Finland because of the quality?

You do realize that both teams that played would beat Charlton?

 

[BEAT!!]

Ja niin sinä kävi niin kuin aina ennenkin tämän niin kauniin ja meille niin rakkaan seuran kohdalla. Urheilumaailman karuin kirous tuli ja otti heti valtaansa meidän uuden Tammelan. Joku toinen seura. Sanotaan nyt vaikka Tappara. Olisi saanut siitä ensimmäisestä kulmatilanteesta pilkun karmeana tuomarivirheenä ja voittanut siitä tulleella maalilla. Mutta ei me. Kirous näytti hauista heti kättelyssä.

Stadionin ensimmäinen maali on Ilves/2:n nimissä ja ensimmäisen virallisen ottelun ja samalla ensinmäisen yleisömatsin maali Hakalla.

 

[Peluuri]

Ja niin sinä kävi niin kuin aina ennenkin tämän niin kauniin ja meille niin rakkaan seuran kohdalla. Urheilumaailman karuin kirous tuli ja otti heti valtaansa meidän uuden Tammelan. Joku toinen seura. Sanotaan nyt vaikka Tappara. Olisi saanut siitä ensimmäisestä kulmatilanteesta pilkun karmeana tuomarivirheenä ja voittanut siitä tulleella maalilla. Mutta ei me. Kirous näytti hauista heti kättelyssä.

Älä kuitenkaan sotke tapparaa maailman hienoimpaan lajiin.

 

[Tarinankertoja]

Stadionin ensimmäinen maali on Ilves/2:n nimissä ja ensimmäisen virallisen ottelun ja samalla ensinmäisen yleisömatsin maali Hakalla.

Ja ekan virallisen sarjapelin tampulla

 

[MattinFinland]

You are a Charlton supporter and been apprehensive to attend Football league games in Finland because of the quality?

You do realize that both teams that played would beat Charlton?

You really under estimate the level of 3rd division football in England, or perhaps have not seen a game below the Championship if you believe that to be the case (I am not going to assume)
I do not think Charlton are a great team, nor did I say that? I simply said I supported them (I grew up local to the area) This season we have been truly awful before Nathan Jones came in as manager. (Last 10 games have been a massive improvement and he has turned things around, beating 5th place Barnsley 2-1 on Saturday, beating Derby (2nd at the time) away from home and drawing 0-0 at home to the league leaders back in February Portsmouth)
Based on what I saw on Saturday, especially in the first half. Both teams would be closer to non league football in England. Even my partner (who is Finnish) who has been to see Charlton games this season was pretty shocked at the difference in level and tempo in comparison . That is not a dig nor meant to be disrespectful, Just openly honest. Like I said in my opening post I enjoyed the game still, I have already brought a ticket for the next home game on Saturday. I did not come here to big up English football. I love football, as a sport.

 

[Pok]

You really under estimate the level of 3rd division football in England, or perhaps have not seen a game below the Championship if you believe that to be the case (I am not going to assume)

I think that it's more that you underestimate the level of Finnish football league. I didn't mean you said Charlton is good team but it's pretty odd that if you watch League One, you still think that Finnish football is beneath you. It is a common judgment with Finnish people that our football is so bad that it's not worth to watch, which really hurt the attendance records. Football is a very popular sport in Finland but unfortunately there are lots of people who only watch it through tv or streams.

I don't think there is much difference to English League One football in level. Finnish Liiga team HJK has gone to group stage in Europe three times in a row and lost to AS Roma (Serie A), Frankfurt (Bundesliga) and Real Betis (La Liga) in Eurocups last three years at home 0-1, 0-2, 1-2 and drew twice (both home and away) against Scottish Premier League team Aberdeen just a couple of months ago. Ilves is considered one of HJK:s main challengers this season in Finnish league. I doubt that English League One teams would do any better against Roma, Frankfurt and Betis, considering that Roma and Frankfurt have won eurocups during last three years against for example English Premier League competition.

Keep an open mind, if you go to a match thinking that this is going to be shit, it might just look like that. European competitions prove that Finnish league is not so bad compared to other European leagues even when it is not even nearly the same level as English Premier League or La Liga.

 

[LehJoo]

I think that it's more that you underestimate the level of Finnish football league. I didn't mean you said Charlton is good team but it's pretty odd that if you watch League One, you still think that Finnish football is beneath you. It is a common judgment with Finnish people that our football is so bad that it's not worth to watch, which really hurt the attendance records. Football is a very popular sport in Finland but unfortunately there are lots of people who only watch it through tv or streams.

I don't think there is much difference to English League One football in level. Finnish Liiga team HJK has gone to group stage in Europe three times in a row and lost to AS Roma (Serie A), Frankfurt (Bundesliga) and Real Betis (La Liga) in Eurocups last three years at home 0-1, 0-2, 1-2 and drew twice (both home and away) against Scottish Premier League team Aberdeen just a couple of months ago. Ilves is considered one of HJK:s main challengers this season in Finnish league. I doubt that English League One teams would do any better against Roma, Frankfurt and Betis, considering that Roma and Frankfurt have won eurocups during last three years against for example English Premier League competition.

Keep an open mind, if you go to a match thinking that this is going to be shit, it might just look like that. European competitions prove that Finnish league is not so bad compared to other European leagues even when it is not even nearly the same level as English Premier League or La Liga.

HJK would be the 16th most expensive team in League one

 

[Lippu liehuu näin]

Lädit voisivat nyt opetella suomea. Ei jaksa lukea Ilves ketjussa mitään Shartonista

 

[Atte902]

HJK would be the 16th most expensive team in League one

Teams' worth should not be the way we measure who is better. English teams are known to be overpriced and paying insane amounts to good (not great) players.

 

[MattinFinland]

I think that it's more that you underestimate the level of Finnish football league. I didn't mean you said Charlton is good team but it's pretty odd that if you watch League One, you still think that Finnish football is beneath you. It is a common judgment with Finnish people that our football is so bad that it's not worth to watch, which really hurt the attendance records. Football is a very popular sport in Finland but unfortunately there are lots of people who only watch it through tv or streams.

I don't think there is much difference to English League One football in level. Finnish Liiga team HJK has gone to group stage in Europe three times in a row and lost to AS Roma (Serie A), Frankfurt (Bundesliga) and Real Betis (La Liga) in Eurocups last three years at home 0-1, 0-2, 1-2 and drew twice (both home and away) against Scottish Premier League team Aberdeen just a couple of months ago. Ilves is considered one of HJK:s main challengers this season in Finnish league. I doubt that English League One teams would do any better against Roma, Frankfurt and Betis, considering that Roma and Frankfurt have won eurocups during last three years against for example English Premier League competition.

Keep an open mind, if you go to a match thinking that this is going to be shit, it might just look like that. European competitions prove that Finnish league is not so bad compared to other European leagues even when it is not even nearly the same level as English Premier League or La Liga.

This topic is about Ilves and isn’t really the place for a debate to discuss the differences between League one and the Veikkausliiga.

So after this post I’ll stop and you can message me directly if you wish to discuss about it further.

I appreciate what you are saying and understand why you feel the need to be protective over Finnish football.

You seem to be focusing your argument based on HJK, rarther then the league as a whole, I haven’t seen HJK play so I can’t comment but one or two decent teams in a league doesn’t make the standard of league good.

If I thought Finnish football was beyond me I wouldn’t have brought another ticket for Saturday and I wouldn’t be considering getting a season ticket and giving it a chance. The stadium and atmosphere made up for the lack of quality at times.

I would recommend you watch or attend a few games in League one or even League two and then draw up a comparison.

In terms of the post above about learning Finnish, I am trying! It’s a difficult language and most Finns have a good understanding of English, so I picked writing in English to avoid confusion.

 

[AQ21]

In terms of the post above about learning Finnish, I am trying! It’s a difficult language and most Finns have a good understanding of English, so I picked writing in English to avoid confusion.

Mod here, just wanna quickly say to not mind them. We've had non-Finnish speakers join the forum before and it's always nice to get a different perspective on things. We'd rather take the slight confusion of people sometimes posting in two languages than start gatekeeping, scaring potential members off and making the discussion less diverse. Welcome to the Ilves family

 

[MattinFinland]

I had a question in which I was hoping someone here could spread some light on for me. I had a very brief look through the football pyramid in Finland and did not remember seeing Tappara anywhere. Would I be right to assume that they do not have a setup for football? I know about the Ilves/Tappara rivalry from Ice Hockey.

I did see a team called Tampere United but noticed that they are in a lower league so I am not sure how often the two teams have met and if that is the main rivalry for Ilves. Prehaps it is FC Haka or Seinäjoki?
Or is there a deeper tension in football between Ilves and HJK for example? (Being a Tampere-Helsinki based teams)

 

[EtäIpa]

Mä olen tosi positiivinen nyt futiksen suhteen! En toki ole kotimaista potkupalloa seurannut vuosikausiin. Tein joskus lupauksen, että jos Ratinan yleisurheilustadionilla pelataan futista, niin se on siinä. Tammela on ainoa oikea paikka tamperelaiselle jalkapallolle!!!

Ja yllä olevalle englantilaiselle herrasmiehelle, niin Tampereella ei ole nykypäivävän kuumia paikallismatseja futiksessa, tämä on jääkiekkokaupunki isossa kuvassa. TPV ja Tamu voisivat olla Ilvekselle sitä joskus, jos futiskulttuuri kehittyy.

 

[Tesoman maalitykki]

I think that it's more that you underestimate the level of Finnish football league. I didn't mean you said Charlton is good team but it's pretty odd that if you watch League One, you still think that Finnish football is beneath you. It is a common judgment with Finnish people that our football is so bad that it's not worth to watch, which really hurt the attendance records. Football is a very popular sport in Finland but unfortunately there are lots of people who only watch it through tv or streams.

I don't think there is much difference to English League One football in level. Finnish Liiga team HJK has gone to group stage in Europe three times in a row and lost to AS Roma (Serie A), Frankfurt (Bundesliga) and Real Betis (La Liga) in Eurocups last three years at home 0-1, 0-2, 1-2 and drew twice (both home and away) against Scottish Premier League team Aberdeen just a couple of months ago. Ilves is considered one of HJK:s main challengers this season in Finnish league. I doubt that English League One teams would do any better against Roma, Frankfurt and Betis, considering that Roma and Frankfurt have won eurocups during last three years against for example English Premier League competition.

Keep an open mind, if you go to a match thinking that this is going to be shit, it might just look like that. European competitions prove that Finnish league is not so bad compared to other European leagues even when it is not even nearly the same level as English Premier League or La Liga.

Kyllä league one on kovempi kuin veikkausliiga ja League two on kanssa todella kova sarja.

 

[Berenger]

I had a question in which I was hoping someone here could spread some light on for me. I had a very brief look through the football pyramid in Finland and did not remember seeing Tappara anywhere. Would I be right to assume that they do not have a setup for football? I know about the Ilves/Tappara rivalry from Ice Hockey.

I did see a team called Tampere United but noticed that they are in a lower league so I am not sure how often the two teams have met and if that is the main rivalry for Ilves. Prehaps it is FC Haka or Seinäjoki?
Or is there a deeper tension in football between Ilves and HJK for example? (Being a Tampere-Helsinki based teams)

Haka matches are called Pirkanmaa derby which has some level of reaction from the fans of each side. Haka also being the second most successful team in Finland and has a long tradition. But even with that, the derby is not really a derby in terms. But is has been said by the players that it is the second goal of the season (or the second biggest thing) is that you must finish above Haka or Ilves.

HJK is hated (or envied) everywhere in Finland but I don't think that Ilves supporters have a bigger rivalry than others.
Haka and HJK match is called "the Classic". Mainly because of the successful history of the teams.

Tampere United fans back in the day tried to have a somekind of fierce rivalry with HJK. And I guess they managed to do that cause the fans have had fights and some sorts of hostile visits in each others' games even TamU being in the lower leagues.

For me the true rivelry has always been with TPV. I guess that is because of games which I had in juniors back in the days.
TPV is (or was) the other big side besides Ilves. TamU wasn't even invented back then and even nowadays the junior system is just starting up.
But TPV is so weak nowadays that there is no chance of any tension.

TamU supporters hate Ilves (so I have been informed) but I don't think that is the case on our side. I'm guessing that Ilves supporters don't bother to make somekind of makebelief rivalry with a team that plays in the fourth highest stage in finnish football. And for me the story behind Tampere United "new coming" is too beautiful to be ruined by some fake hatred.

But, the answer to your guestion:
No, Ilves has no fierce rivelry with anyone.
And no, Tappara does not have any other sport than ice hockey and figure skating.

 

[harkkapilli]

I had a question in which I was hoping someone here could spread some light on for me. I had a very brief look through the football pyramid in Finland and did not remember seeing Tappara anywhere. Would I be right to assume that they do not have a setup for football? I know about the Ilves/Tappara rivalry from Ice Hockey.

I did see a team called Tampere United but noticed that they are in a lower league so I am not sure how often the two teams have met and if that is the main rivalry for Ilves. Prehaps it is FC Haka or Seinäjoki?
Or is there a deeper tension in football between Ilves and HJK for example? (Being a Tampere-Helsinki based teams)

Oh boy. Football history of Tampere is hard to explain shortly. Nowadays main derby rival in Veikkausliiga is FC Haka from nearby Valkeakoski. Also some heat with SJK which shared some seasons with Ilves in Kakkonen and Ykkönen before both promoted in Veikkausliiga.

History between Ilves and TamU is complex. Kind of relatives to each other but also some kind hate on the other hand. So far Ilves and TamU haven't played in the same league with their number one teams.

TPV and Ilves are kind of tradional rivals but since 1990s there haven't been many seasons in same tier.

HJK is more or less hated around the country but founder of Ilves Niilo Tammisalo used play for HJK and national team. He was a goalkeeper during his football player career.

 

[MattinFinland]

Haka matches are called Pirkanmaa derby which has some level of reaction from the fans of each side. Haka also being the second most successful team in Finland and has a long tradition. But even with that, the derby is not really a derby in terms. But is has been said by the players that it is the second goal of the season (or the second biggest thing) is that you must finish above Haka or Ilves.

HJK is hated (or envied) everywhere in Finland but I don't think that Ilves supporters have a bigger rivalry than others.
Haka and HJK match is called "the Classic". Mainly because of the successful history of the teams.

Tampere United fans back in the day tried to have a somekind of fierce rivalry with HJK. And I guess they managed to do that cause the fans have had fights and some sorts of hostile visits in each others' games even TamU being in the lower leagues.

For me the true rivelry has always been with TPV. I guess that is because of games which I had in juniors back in the days.
TPV is (or was) the other big side besides Ilves. TamU wasn't even invented back then and even nowadays the junior system is just starting up.
But TPV is so weak nowadays that there is no chance of any tension.

TamU supporters hate Ilves (so I have been informed) but I don't think that is the case on our side. I'm guessing that Ilves supporters don't bother to make somekind of makebelief rivalry with a team that plays in the fourth highest stage in finnish football. And for me the story behind Tampere United "new coming" is too beautiful to be ruined by some fake hatred.

But, the answer to your guestion:
No, Ilves has no fierce rivelry with anyone.
And no, Tappara does not have any other sport than ice hockey and figure skating.

Fantastic! This gives me a much bigger picture and perspective both for Ilves and the Veikkausliiga in general. The Pirkanmaa derby makes sence and the Haka and HJK rivalry sounds interesting and it is great to hear your views on the other teams in Tampere in terms of the feelings of rivalry between supporters. I really appreciate the in depth explanation, thank you Berenger.

 

[Pirkkalan Litti]

Täällä olikin vähän erilaista keskustelua mitä odotin! Eipä mitään ihan mielenkiintoista.

Tuli sellainen mieleen, että miksi faneilla on chantti:
”Tampereen suurin?
- ILVES!”

Mikä toinen joukkue voisi olla Tampereen suurin kun seuraavat jengit pelaavat Kakkosta? Tuo kuulostaa ainakin omaan korvaan todella typerältä huudolta, joka aliarvioi Ilveksen tavoitteita.

Voisiko tuon vaihtaa, että ”Suomen suurin”? Tuntuu hölmöltä chantata noin itsestäänselvää asiaa.

 

[jokuvaa]

Täällä olikin vähän erilaista keskustelua mitä odotin! Eipä mitään ihan mielenkiintoista.

Tuli sellainen mieleen, että miksi faneilla on chantti:
”Tampereen suurin?
- ILVES!”

Mikä toinen joukkue voisi olla Tampereen suurin kun seuraavat jengit pelaavat Kakkosta? Tuo kuulostaa ainakin omaan korvaan todella typerältä huudolta, joka aliarvioi Ilveksen tavoitteita.

Voisiko tuon vaihtaa, että ”Suomen suurin”? Tuntuu hölmöltä chantata noin itsestäänselvää asiaa.

Niin tai siis Kannattajapääty huutaa Tampereen ykkönen eikä suurin.

Mitä väliä, jos on itsestäänselvä? Hyvä keino yhdistää kannattajakatsomoa ja yleisöä ja saada vähän lisää ääntä jälkimmäisestä.